tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27549167.post4896848306295808922..comments2023-09-25T06:48:48.316-06:00Comments on Magic Valley Mormon: Chinks in Democratic Party Armor, or Constructive Criticism Leading to Better Leadership?Cameronhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06016275707476655364noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27549167.post-86297791196171020622009-04-08T11:56:00.000-06:002009-04-08T11:56:00.000-06:00DL, if Republicans always toed the party line then...DL, if Republicans always toed the party line then congressional republicans would have a higher approval rating. President Bush would have too for that matter.Cameronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06016275707476655364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27549167.post-57337716577928689072009-04-02T11:56:00.000-07:002009-04-02T11:56:00.000-07:00I can't speak for the Utah Democratic Party, but t...I can't speak for the Utah Democratic Party, but the reason why Democrats cannot govern at the national level is pretty clear.<BR/><BR/>The Republican senators and representatives are almost 100% loyal to the party line, whatever it happens to be. Democrats on the other hand are divided. A significant number of Democrats are conservative and they vote with Republicans on a number of issues. <BR/><BR/>Republicans are the party of business, particularly big business. Conservative policy positions generally favor big business so there's no dissonance between the positions a Republican is likely to take and those of his biggest donors. An ever larger number of Democrats are now receiving donations from big business interests but they can't support the Democratic Party base and expect those donations to continue, so they dodge and weave.<BR/><BR/>So we have a majority party that is divided so that on any given issue 10-40% of them will vote with the opposition and a minority party that is 98% loyal to their party line. That's why Democrats can't govern - they don't have the votes.Charles Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02975241234146573609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27549167.post-24396018231947088412009-04-02T08:52:00.000-07:002009-04-02T08:52:00.000-07:00Paul, that's a good point about taking bloggers wi...Paul, that's a good point about taking bloggers with a grain of salt. Parties are diverse organizations after all. I think Rob has been great for the party, and I too wish there were more grown ups like him involved.<BR/><BR/>And on that note...<BR/><BR/>Jason, the national party controversy was written about by that well known conservative shill magazine, The New Republic. It's not my argument, just an article I read that got me thinking. I like to share those things. It strikes me as prudent to learn from past mistakes (Carter and Clinton), and ensure that "contours of failure" that are "clearly visible" don't do to the current president what they did to the last two.<BR/><BR/>As for the local huff, I'm not sure why a conversation about Democrats always has to include a "well, Republicans are bad too" line of argument. Nothing in my post tried to compare the two or rate one higher than the other. <BR/><BR/>I think the two situations relate because in this new era of Democratic Party dominance, both the local and national versions are taking shots at themselves. I'm sure it could be written that that shows signs of weakness, but I wonder if it's actually something different. I wonder if publicly noting how Senate democrats ruined Carter and Clinton will help to prevent the same fate for Obama. I wonder if criticisms like yours and Bob's will have the squeaky wheel effect and help the local party make real gains.Cameronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06016275707476655364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27549167.post-69332013228993993912009-04-01T21:13:00.000-07:002009-04-01T21:13:00.000-07:00Don't confuse a few bloggers as being the pulse of...Don't confuse a few bloggers as being the pulse of the party. Holland has done a great job Miller could easily win a third term if he had run. I rtead blogs and I enjoy their commentary, but the bloggers who are attacking Holland are the ones who don't get it. <BR/><BR/>Millers comments were right on. <BR/><BR/>I'm a Democrat in Salt Lake and you can thank Holland and Miller for finally bringing the leadership the party needed. <BR/><BR/>I like having adults leading our party.Paul Pricenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27549167.post-89335329225490864762009-04-01T19:44:00.000-07:002009-04-01T19:44:00.000-07:00Your reaching beyond the length of human possibili...Your reaching beyond the length of human possibility with this connection, Cameron, though I can appreciate the conversation you're hoping to start. <BR/><BR/>The frustrations on a local level you've gotten right, the frustrations on the national level, you're conflating. Disagreements in congress do not equate to a lack of public support for a president's agenda. In fact, that is one of the problems with congressional R and D's overall, they so often find reason to ignore public opinion in light of more immediate (re-election) interests.<BR/><BR/>I'd say approval rating-wise, Democrats still have a bright future nationally.<BR/><BR/>Locally, we have a lot to talk about. But having had this same "get the hell ONLINE" conversation with both local Democrats and Republicans, the Democrats still have the lead in actually listening.<BR/><BR/>Were it not for Ric Cantrell (my personal local hero), Sen. Pete Knudson (Box Elder), the Republicans are not doing much better when it comes to online presence to fight apathy. In fact, the Republican party in Utah depends on apathy, whereas the Democrats are being held down by it.<BR/><BR/>Don't take my comments wrong, I'm not attempting to shut you down. In fact, I wish more bloggers would take up a stick and challenge their party to adapt more quickly in using online resources to better engage the public.<BR/><BR/>But the way you attempt to frame it here takes the credibility out of the entire conversation.Jason Thehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15518866228386927143noreply@blogger.com