tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27549167.post5521380389268411547..comments2023-09-25T06:48:48.316-06:00Comments on Magic Valley Mormon: A Philosophical Study of AbortionCameronhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06016275707476655364noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27549167.post-14934511193803724852008-05-10T09:19:00.000-06:002008-05-10T09:19:00.000-06:00Having children is a huge price to pay for a bit o...<I>Having children is a huge price to pay for a bit of fooling around.</I><BR/><BR/>Perhaps this logic is the reason behind so many people's confusion. They see having children as a very large consequence for a very small indiscretion.<BR/><BR/>But that "fooling around" process is how it works naturally. The consequence is proper because the indiscretion is large. Increased sexual promiscuity has led many to believe that fooling around is not that big a deal.<BR/><BR/>Our bodies are sacred, and as such, there are serious consequences when ignore that sacredness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27549167.post-53969490420699426802007-02-28T11:24:00.000-07:002007-02-28T11:24:00.000-07:00That's a great question about fathers' rights, and...That's a great question about fathers' rights, and I don't have an answer. So far, the abortion debate has been dominated by discussion of the fetus and the mother, and the father really doesn't have any say in what happens to his child. I don't know if that is going to change any time soon, but I doubt it.Cameronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06016275707476655364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27549167.post-50787540032202932712007-02-27T10:04:00.000-07:002007-02-27T10:04:00.000-07:00Wow, you have a very thoughtful blog. I'm not sur...Wow, you have a very thoughtful blog. <BR/><BR/>I'm not sure where I stand on abortion. I can see points to both sides. One side that is overlooked is the fathers. I recently had a friend who's girlfriend got pregnant and wanted an abortion, he did not and it wasn't his choice to make. She had one and it broke his heart. Do you think we will see more rights given to the father of the unborn baby when it comes to a decision on abortion?Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08698134216237476484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27549167.post-63147347398482300702007-02-07T13:36:00.000-07:002007-02-07T13:36:00.000-07:00C-Hayes-
Thanks for stopping by. I found where y...C-Hayes-<br /><br />Thanks for stopping by. I found where you had linked to me, and the Kyoto post has seen a few hits since then. Thanks for the link, and the kind words. Feel free to comment as often as you'd like.Cameronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06016275707476655364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27549167.post-23779056906022868152007-02-06T16:50:00.000-07:002007-02-06T16:50:00.000-07:00Shannon posted this on the Small Sins comment stri...Shannon posted this on the <a href="http://magicvalleymormon.blogspot.com/2007/01/small-sins.html">Small Sins</a> comment string, so I brought it over here:<br /><br /><i>In my opinion, both these debates are have been beaten to the ground over and over and over...<br />Yet the same conclusion, for both, still remains: <br /><br />There is no scientific proof that yet that proves the fetus is born an actual being or with a spirit/personality/soul. Even religions, such as the Mormon one, treat abortion as a forgiveable sin...not as an unforgiveable one such as murder, which puts the two in completely different categories. <br /><br />The down side to abortion is that it keeps people from the responsibility of their actions. But on the up side, it keeps women who DON'T want to be mothers from raising unwanted children. <br /><br />Having children is a huge price to pay for a bit of fooling around. Having kids when one is unfit and unwilling makes even less sense than this. <br /><br />The world is not black and white. What should be considered when contemplating you're stance on abortion is the individual person and individual circumstance. Why are we so anxious to define our thoughts by absolutes? Is it because it takes more effort to take each story into consideration? Do we feel safer with a definate yes or no? <br />Well, my vote is for maybe so...<br /></i><br /><br />Some religions do teach that "ensoulment" occurs at conseption, and the spirit or soul discussion would seem to be a strictly religious one. However, science can help in a few areas, like DNA. A fetus possesses a genetic code, which certainly supports Noonan's definition of humanity: If you are conceived by human parents you are human. Also, a new ultrasound technology has shown twins in the womb hugging and kissing. Alternately, I am not aware of any scientific "proof" denying humanity to the fetus.<br /><br />The "unwanted pregnancy" argument is often used. It is certainly compelling. I think it goes something like this: A child born into a home where she is unloved, unwanted, and uncared for is tragic. Even a child born to a mother that simply cannot care for her- maybe because of financial reasons- is tragic as well. It is tragic not only for the child, but also for her parents. But is that reason to end the child's life? There are countless stories of people born in crummy circumstances that go on to lead exemplary lives. One in particular is <a href="http://www.tedharvey.com/gianna.htm">Gianna Jessen</a>, who was born with cerebral palsy and told she would never walk but who is now running marathons and singing the national anthem to the Colorado legislature.<br /><br />There are alos countless examples of unwed, poor women who have found themselves pregnant from a bit of fooling around and chose to carry the baby to term and changed for the better because of it. I personally know of a few. Often, the consequences of our actions, if faced, can actually be a blessing.<br /><br />There very well may be circumstances where a pregnant mother just cannot or should not have a baby, both for the baby's benefit and the mother's. But in those cases why not just adopt? There are waiting lists full of couples that can provide the lvoe and support the baby needs. I think <a href="http://www.priestsforlife.org/brochures/mtspeech.html">Mother Teresa</a> sums it up best:<br /><br /><i>Please don't kill the child. I want the child. Please give me the child. I am willing to accept any child who would be aborted and to give that child to a married couple who will love the child and be loved by the child.</i><br /><br />Finally Shan, I don't think <i>everything</i> is black and white. But some things are. Either you speed or you don't. But if you do, you can get a ticket. Stealing is wrong, and against the law. Abusing your children is wrong, and against the law. I think abortion is wrong, and it should be against the law. This rather long winded post and subsequent comments are my attempt to show why.Cameronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06016275707476655364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27549167.post-70542254997093443272007-02-06T16:16:00.000-07:002007-02-06T16:16:00.000-07:00Can your last statement be reconciled with the Chu...<i>Can your last statement be reconciled with the Church's stance? Hasn't the Church stated that abortion is not equal to murder? </i><br /><br />Here's my last few statements from the post:<br /><br /><i>It is clear, then, that abortion amounts to killing a living human being. With very rare exceptions, these killings are unjust, and therefore should be illegal. </i><br /><br />Here is the <a href="http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.3933737ad2ff28132eb22a86942826a0/?vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&index=1&sourceId=63c139b439c98010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____">Church's stance</a>:<br /><br /><i>Human life is a sacred gift from God. Elective abortion for personal or social convenience is contrary to the will and the commandments of God. Church members who submit to, perform, encourage, pay for, or arrange for such abortions may lose their membership in the Church.</i><br /><br />There is also <a href="http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1985.htm/ensign%20may%201985%20.htm/reverence%20for%20life.htm?fn=document-frameset.htm$f=templates$3.0">this statement</a> from Elder Russell M. Nelson:<br /><br /><i>Now, is there hope for those who have so sinned without full understanding, who now suffer heartbreak? Yes. So far as is known, the Lord does not regard this transgression as murder. And “as far as has been revealed, a person may repent and be forgiven for the sin of abortion.” Gratefully, we know the Lord will help all who are truly repentant.</i><br /><br />Abortion and murder are not equal sins. I don't think that what I wrote equates them either.Cameronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06016275707476655364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27549167.post-13996715153296087262007-02-06T16:01:00.000-07:002007-02-06T16:01:00.000-07:00This is an odd debate on abortion, since it ignore...<i>This is an odd debate on abortion, since it ignores the rights and lives of women who are the ones who actually get pregnant. </i><br /><br />It is also odd that no one talks much about the father's role in pregnancy and abortion. But that's a topic for another day.<br /><br />Whatever rights the mother has are inseperabley connected to the life of the fetus she helped create. The broader point exemplified by these two scholars' opposing arguments is that the fetus is a human being. Our society does not take lightly the ending of human life, and rightly so. Many have attempted to show that a fetus is not a human yet, but all those definitions defining humanity have the unintended consequence of also denying humanity to people that have been born. The only definition I am aware of that does not result in also taking away humanity from newborns, the elderly, those with down syndrome, etc, is the one Noonan proposes in his paper: If you are conceived by human parents, you are human.<br /><br />So yes, it may seem that the abortion debate dwells on the fetus. But that's because if the fetus is indeed human, the mother's excuses for killing her don't hold much weight. Those that favor abortion, including Judith Thomson, recognize this just as those that are in opposition do.Cameronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06016275707476655364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27549167.post-16717703107108612532007-02-06T15:53:00.000-07:002007-02-06T15:53:00.000-07:00I just stumbled upon your website, and thought it ...I just stumbled upon your website, and thought it was great. In fact, I linked to your Kyoto Protocol piece, I thought it was so good.<br /><br />Check it out if you like - I'll be sure to be back to this site often.<br /><br />http://c-hayes.blogspot.com/index.html<br /><br />Thanks for doing what you do...C-Hayeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06740271850552402238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27549167.post-6869080715911470442007-02-05T22:37:00.000-07:002007-02-05T22:37:00.000-07:00Off topic: Hey, Cameron, would you like to get inv...Off topic: Hey, Cameron, would you like to get involved <a href="http://right-mind.us/blogs/blog_0/archive/2007/02/05/49644.aspx">in this over at Right Mind</a>?Bubbleheadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01591543892553982845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27549167.post-51577899615912504362007-02-03T21:06:00.000-07:002007-02-03T21:06:00.000-07:00Can your last statement be reconciled with the Chu...Can your last statement be reconciled with the Church's stance? Hasn't the Church stated that abortion is not equal to murder?Jessicahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18171427857308042830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27549167.post-65799102694078413272007-02-03T13:40:00.000-07:002007-02-03T13:40:00.000-07:00This is an odd debate on abortion, since it ignore...This is an odd debate on abortion, since it ignores the rights and lives of women who are the ones who actually get pregnant.libhomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05537213558568338561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27549167.post-39675330021815871702007-02-01T17:10:00.000-07:002007-02-01T17:10:00.000-07:00The Unborn Victims of Violence Act is a United Sta...The Unborn Victims of Violence Act is a United States law which defines violent assault committed against pregnant women as being a crime against two persons: the woman and the fetus she carries. <br /><br />This law was passed in 2004 after the murder of the then pregnant Laci Peterson and her fetus, Connor Peterson.<br /><br /><br /><br />If it is right for a man (or woman) to be charged for homicide and sentenced to prison (or worse) for killing the unborn (and rightfully so) <br /><br />then shouldn't the unborn have equil consideration in relation to abortion..?<br /> <br />Is a fetus earmarked for abortion of any less value to a fetus killed by violence...?<br /><br />Is not abortion a violent attack on an inocent life just the same...?<br /><br />I think it's not ethical to protect one without the other.....<br /><br />they're one and the same........aus bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00673517690023181892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27549167.post-43517852669824603212007-02-01T08:54:00.000-07:002007-02-01T08:54:00.000-07:00Wow, that was a big one! You know my viewpoints o...Wow, that was a big one! You know my viewpoints on this one already. SO, I won't go into long details, but good job!Ashleehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13088158906170080007noreply@blogger.com